On Being Expelled from Peterson Academy – Part 2

NOTE: This is Part 2 of a long saga about being booted from Peterson Academy (PA). You can find the rest here:

Part 1

Bonus Features

PARENTS, YE BE WARNED: I’m not actually sure who’s reading my blog, but I’ve largely left quotations intact (and included some that were quite pointed, somewhat vulgar, etc.) for context, so this post has more strong language, themes, and general content than usual.

tl;dr – Were this a film, it would be rated “R”.

ADDITIONAL NOTE: Peterson Academy renamed its “Social” page to the “Quad” because a quad is a lawn where students gather at a university. This change took place around mid-December and will be relevant for upcoming material.

Continued Bannings

“Where was I?”

It was the evening of January 8th, 2025.

At this point, I know of two of us who had been forcibly removed.

At 21:28 ET Dusty was banned with no forewarning.

Then another student let us know at 21:29 ET that she also couldn’t log in.

By now I was pretty hopped up on adrenaline.

(Actually, it’s funny because I previously remembered all this happening sometime in the afternoon. In retrospect, it felt earlier because I was up past 3 AM ET trying to take everything in.)

At 22:42 ET we found out that another student had been axed, and discovered at least two others were removed around this time.

To put this into perspective for you, there had been four people who had been removed from Peterson Academy over the five months prior to all this.

There are the three legitimate trolls I mentioned in my previous post, and there was a reporter for Slate who wrote this article back in October 2024:

Antiwoke U.

What I saw in my brief career as a student at Jordan Peterson Academy.

(As a brief aside, I do not recall seeing this reporter on PA social, but I have friends who do. I find it unfortunate that he got expelled trying to write a news article, since that seems like weird grounds for an expulsion. Even if it had been a hit piece I think he should have been allowed to research and write it. The fruit of the endeavor would have proven him right or wrong in the long run.)

Now, in a matter of hours there were seven newly-expelled students.

And it seems like an odd choice that they removed some of us but not others.

For example, one student was a young stay-at-home mom in Europe who didn’t participate as much on the social side of things, and when she did it was usually about the joys and challenges she was experiencing as a mother of young kids, incredibly kind posts encouraging others, or sharing uplifting things (like beautiful artwork) with the group.

She spoke up a bit about her disapproval of Mikhaila’s handling of the price situation, without any room for ambiguity on her opinion, but certainly not in an egregious way–and she was most definitely not trolling other students.

There were others who spoke more directly to (and even tagged) Mikhaila and her husband Jordan in posts explaining why their choice to expel us was disappointing and troubling, but these students did not get expelled immediately (and some were never expelled at all).

Regarding those who had expressed their disapproval, the standards seemed to apply to some and not others.

I still don’t know how they decided who should be taken out and who should stay.

(One common denominator for some of them was that they were well-articulated, reasonable posts that provided a compelling case for why the administration should be more transparent.)

Oddly, the first student who had alerted us to her sudden inability to log in was also blocked on Instagram.

She had not been belligerent or hostile–or even tagged Peterson Academy about any of the price stuff on Instagram–to have merited such a thing, so this still seems weird to me.

Initial Student Reactions

I think it’s fair to say that this turn of events was unexpected.

I had joked openly about these sorts of things happening because we’d made it quite clear that we were trying to help, and the thought of them banning some of their most active and ardent supporters was totally absurd.

Aaaaaaand then they did…

People were pretty shocked about the whole thing.

I got in touch with students who were still there and willing to pass my contact info along to others we’d just been cut off from.

I received emails and Discord DMs from a number of students expressing their disbelief.

Here are some emails illustrating this point:

9 January 2025 Email from Peterson Academy Student Expressing Disbelief at What Happened

10 January 2025 Email from Another Peterson Academy Student

11 January 2025 Emails from Yet Another Peterson Academy Student who Disagreed with the Administration’s Handling of the Situation & Expressed Discomfort at Lack of Clarity

Some students were pretty open about their disapproval of the management’s decisions directly on the Peterson Academy platform.

The night everything went down, one friend featured us in his unofficial “school newspaper” with this ironic tribute:

8 January 2025 NoRegret Gazette and Another Student’s Response of Disbelief

Here’s a bit more of the Gazette in text form, since I don’t have a screenshot of the whole thing, for additional context (names and links have been changed where it made sense to do so; I’ve highlighted the stuff that’s most relevant to this narrative):

𝕋𝕙𝕖 ℕ𝕠ℝ𝕖𝕘𝕣𝕖𝕥 𝔾𝕒𝕫𝕖𝕥𝕥𝕖 January 8, 2025

What a very, very strange and sad day.  Downvotes were implemented.  The quad was rebooted, Refunds offered, at least five students were expelled from the school without warning and given a refund.  I might be next, who knows.  Regardless, moving ahead with No Regrets.

To Tessa, Frankie, Talia, Dusty and Annegret (who will receive this Gazette separately), I want to say thank you for the time and thought you’ve poured into PA, for your insights, your humor, and sharing your life over these months together.  I consider you friends and hope we will continue to stay in touch. 

If anyone has any farewells or thoughts that they want to communicate to them, feel free to respond to this post and I’ll get the message to them.

𝑭𝒖𝒏 (Due to recent expulsion of our funniest student, Fun has been cancelled for the foreseeable future):

𝑻𝒉𝒐𝒖𝒈𝒉𝒕 𝒑𝒓𝒐𝒗𝒐𝒌𝒊𝒏𝒈:

Student 1
https://petersonacademy.com/posts/#####
What happens if we never get to realize the purpose or ultimate goodness of a given tragedy and suffering? How do you wrestle with that possibility?

Student 2
https://petersonacademy.com/posts/#####
Facts aren’t facts. They’re functions.

Student 3
https://petersonacademy.com/posts/#####
On IRWS and the possibility of AI sages replacing humanity.

Student 4
https://petersonacademy.com/posts/#####
On embodying Dr. Peterson’s core teachings.

Student 5
https://petersonacademy.com/posts/#####
To get the most out of the courses – do the readings, review the lecture notes, etc.

𝑪𝒐𝒎𝒎𝒖𝒏𝒊𝒕𝒚 𝑩𝒖𝒍𝒍𝒆𝒕𝒊𝒏 𝑩𝒐𝒂𝒓𝒅:

Mikhaila Fuller
https://petersonacademy.com/posts/#####
The 3 REs of PA: “REnew, REfun, or REmain silent”.

Mikhaila Fuller https://petersonacademy.com/posts/#####
Which professors would you like to see back?

Student 4
https://petersonacademy.com/posts/#####
There’s no such thing as a dragon.

Student 6
https://petersonacademy.com/posts/#####
Speaker’s Corner tonight was well attended.

Student 7
https://petersonacademy.com/posts/#####
What Are Appropriate/Inappropriate Topics for the Quad?

Student 4
https://petersonacademy.com/posts/#####
On the upvote/downvote system

Student 8
https://petersonacademy.com/posts/#####
I believe it’s a mistake to try to control or dictate how people interact with each other on a social media platform.

Here’s a sample of a reaction that this post received:

Another Student’s Reaction to the 8 January 2025 NoRegret Gazette

Mikhaila posted later in the day, ignoring student requests for clarity and explanations of what happened. One student had a cheeky reply that I appreciated very much:

8 January 2025 Copy of Mikhaila’s Nothing-to-See-Here Posting with a Cheeky Student Response

Before we got expelled, Jeffrey (who had proven himself to be a reliable and even-keeled kind of guy over the months, during which he’d created a school podcast interviewing students) had extended an offer to Mikhaila to have her come on his podcast and use the opportunity to explain things that a number of us had been asking about.

When we were removed, he made another (imo, very gracious) attempt to help mend the trust that many students had lost:

9 January 2025 Student Attempt to Restore Trust in Peterson Academy via a Podcast Conversation

Students had differing opinions on this offer, but the ones I saw were largely favorable. Here’s a sample of student responses to Jeffrey’s post:

Here is another student’s take on what happened:

There’s No Such Thing as a Dragon & Continued Student Reactions

One student (who had referenced the lesson taught by Jordan Peterson in the No Such Thing as a Dragon book in Part 1) reposted his concerns along with that book’s cover to remind everyone that the problem was not actually solved but had been ignored by the administration instead.

Within the next 24 hours or so, several others reposted this adding their own perspectives. Here are a few examples:

Student Post Sharing Concerns after Losing Trust in Peterson Academy

Another Student Explaining Reasons for Considering Leaving Peterson Academy

Yet Another Student Pointing Out Hypocrisy in Peterson Academy’s Choice to Deplatform Students without Explanation

To say a number of us had become good friends over the past several months might be an understatement.

We looked forward to seeing each other around regularly.

We had been helping one another, encouraging each other, and generally enjoying getting to know and be a part of everyone’s various lives.

And this was despite the large distances across time zones, cultures, nationalities, professions, economic statuses, ages, etc.

One student expressed his grief and was reposted by another who agreed:

9 January 2025 Posts Expressing Grief at Peterson Academy’s Decision to Remove Students
(NOTE: Dusty used to include the flower emoji in her posts, so I believe this was a subtle reference of student support for her specifically.)

Some expressed their concerns about the uncertainty of whether or not they might be next on the chopping block if they were candid about their real thoughts on the situation.

Others wanted to give Peterson Academy the benefit of the doubt:

This wasn’t like when the trolls were removed and the community had breathed a collective sigh of relief.

The Goings On in Outer Darkness

But what was going on behind the scenes with the rest of us?

I was using a Discord server for former and current Peterson Academy enrollees so we could gather and figure out what happened.

We didn’t know who all had been banned, so we tried to track everyone down as quickly as possible.

I worried a lot about that aforementioned young mother, as she had previously mentioned how much she loved the PA community because it made her feel less alone.

Since she was in Europe, she would have been asleep by this time.

I didn’t know what kind of a state she’d be in when she found out she’d been expelled.

And if we weren’t there to connect with her, how would she take the whole thing?

(Spoiler Alert: we found her and reunited shortly.)

So, on the one side, we were consoling one another at such an unexpected turn of events.

Some were more affected by it than others.

And understandably so:

Much of Jordan Peterson’s works are spent telling those in difficult situations how to aim upwards and overcome them, so it is not a surprise that a number of us drawn to the platform had been taking these things to heart and doing our best to implement them in our lives.

Some students already had it hard and were using Peterson Academy to give them a framework of meaning that they were now removed from without warning.

The framework they had spent a lot of time to build was pulled out from under them in an instant.

We wanted to be sure everybody was as okay as possible.

The day after everything went down we had a movie night where some of us watched V for Vendetta as a bit of a dramatic and humorous cathartic outlet.

Then, on the other side of things, we were trying to figure out what to do next.

Attempts to Contact Jordan Peterson Quietly

We thought everything that had happened was wrong and that it didn’t seem to follow the Petersonian ethic we’d expected from the Professor himself.

Jordan Peterson surely could not be aware of what had happened.

He’d just put out a book.

He was on tour.

It was barely past the Christmas and New Year’s holidays.

It seemed reasonable to assume that he was too busy to have seen anything on Peterson Academy recently.

So, we decided that it would be worth trying to write to him.

However…

We had some concerns regarding this idea:

First, Jordan Peterson is a public figure who has enemies.

We didn’t want him to see us as enemies before being given the opportunity to assess our situation.

(After all, he had been in a kind of “fight mode” for almost the past decade, and it would make sense if he were more inclined to view our well-intended critiques of the platform as attacks.)

And then there was the consideration that if this got into the wrong hands, the press could have a field day with the level of hypocrisy going on here.

As a humorous aside, Stephen of the aforementioned “student newspaper” posts, joked about this in a semi-private channel:

It was possible nothing would happen, but we were navigating uncharted territory and wanted to be as careful about it as we could.

We wanted to get things sorted without throwing Peterson Academy into an avoidable controversy.

On 10 January 2025 Dusty wrote a letter to Dr. Peterson expressing the issues we were facing.

The two of us then spent about 6 hours or so meticulously editing it to ensure it said exactly what we wanted it to, in as succinct a manner as possible while still getting across some of the sentiment we thought was relevant to the situation.

Once it was written and we agreed it was ready to send out, we emailed it to a number of private channels, including:

• All of the email addresses on Jordan Peterson’s personal website
• The Daily Wire (we figured that since he works for them and they–as a news outlet–should be keen on protecting his public image, this should provide an okay probability of getting our message to him)
• A number of the Peterson Academy professors (the thought here was that their names were affiliated with his academy and that perhaps if they were keen on his original vision and deemed our message worthwhile to pass along, they may have private ways in which to do so)

This is a copy of the email that I sent out to those channels (some of these were slightly tailored and had minor variations based on the recipients, but this should give you a good idea of what was going on here):

Email Sample of What Was Sent to Various Private-ish Channels around 11 January 2025

Here is a copy of that emailed letter in full, which was first published publicly on Dusty’s blog (Open Letter to Jordan Peterson from Expelled Students of PA) on 12 February 2025:

10 January 2025

Dear Dr. Peterson,

We’d like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank you and Mikhaila for inviting us to embark on the thrilling adventure that is Peterson Academy. As early adopters and torchbearers, we have come to know that the promised potential of top-tier education and likeminded fellowship was rightly stated. You said early on that the social side of university was one of the primary benefits and would be one of the most important features. We believe you were correct.

Peterson Academy Social is a bona fide treasure: a group of highly-motivated early adopters sharing their dreams and struggles, arguing and laughing. In only a few short months, a miraculous thing occurred: real relationships were forged based on a shared ethos of aiming upward and accountability; an ethos of honesty and integrity, transparency, fun-—and even ambition. In short, we each in our own ways have aspired to follow your example and take your wisdom to heart. These past 5 months have enriched not only our intellects and knowledge base, but our lives and community.

PA Social users may be the minority of 40,000 students, but we feel like a true academy. In our midst are mothers, artists, psychologists, tradesmen, military and veterans, nurses, retirees, those on disability, high school students-—everything you can think of. We participate from all over the world, including third-world countries. 

Recently it came to our attention that our subscription would increase from $450 to as much as $1,000 USD in an undisclosed amount of time. Some were able to take advantage of the offer to extend their current subscription for three more years; others could not afford this unanticipated expense. Many simply wanted additional information before investing additional money upfront. Unfortunately, requests for clarity were met with vague messaging despite months of unrealized features (e.g., the sign-up page for PA suggests that exams for courses exist, but they are not yet available). 

The dragon of uncertainty reared its ugly head. As a result (as is often the case on PA Social), a heated debate sprang up. Some expressed concern and requested further explanation and assistance. Others made evident their desire for silence from those who were requesting clarity. Humour was deployed by the Jesters of PA Social (largely in the form of memes), as a lighthearted effort to make it okay to discuss the uncomfortable topic of policy and finances. When Mikhaila quote-posted one of the more pointed memes (which had high levels of somewhat-relieved engagement), she indicated that the price of $4,000 for 4 years was always the goal, that there was no time to entertain the perspective of people who could not afford an extra $50 USD per month, and that perhaps the issue was a general lack of usefulness and work ethic.

Much of the community was taken aback by this, and continued to ask questions. Some even began questioning whether the foundational ethos of Peterson Academy had changed. On Wednesday, January 8th, at least 5 prominent and prolific members of PA Social were banned and refunded without warning. They were given no time to save their content or exchange contact information with fellow students. If one or two had not already done so, friends would have been lost and community members isolated. One user emailed Support requesting an explanation for why she was removed, and received the following response:

“We have noted your dissatisfaction with the platform and therefore have ended your subscription and refunded your money in full.” 

As this seems punitive (in light of the fact that a refund was neither requested nor desired)—-and PA Social has shown itself to be a very difficult place to be banned from (in light of real trolls who were given multiple warnings over a reasonable period of time)—-we can only assume these users grievously violated an unwritten rule. This lack of clarity led to a significant shift in atmosphere on Peterson Academy Social, as users wondered what they were and were not permitted to say.

The memes, articles and comments had several different themes:

1. A request for clarification regarding the pricing for legacy students and “torch bearers”
2. Clarity on the timeline for subsequent price increases
3. Questions about accreditation, testing, lack of final exams, and the value of PA compared with other institutions and streaming platforms
4. Concerns over what is and isn’t acceptable on PA Social (i.e. code of conduct)
5. Comic relief 
6. Open letters to leadership explaining the students’ perspectives and causes for concern

This raises the following questions: 

Was the expulsion for crossing a line with humour?  Was it for bringing up uncomfortable questions the academy doesn’t want to address, or was it some other breach we have failed to identify as problematic? 

Dr. Peterson, we have invested our time, hearts and energy into Peterson Academy because we believe in the values you have been championing for the past decade. Our loyalty and goodwill towards your endeavour are sincere. We cannot help but note the disconnect between your own values—-speaking truth, fearlessly asking difficult questions, and aiming upward—-and the conduct of this academy towards the students who have been banned. Proverbs 18:17 says,

“The first one to plead his cause seems right,
Until his neighbor comes and examines him.”

The consensus amongst students is that you are our only hope for restoring the vision, optimism, and perhaps even classically-liberal ethos we anticipated at Peterson Academy. We hope you’ll turn your attention to the situation, and give a fair hearing to the perspectives of both the academy and the students who have been expelled (though relevant content has since been erased from the platform in conjunction with account removals). Most of the deplatformed students have expressed their desire to stay, as well as a heartfelt commitment to their education and community. 

We know we are a small minority of enrollees, but we pride ourselves on being torchbearers in this noble educational endeavour—-which we truly believe will change the world. Any time and attention you are willing to devote to this matter would mean the world to us, as we hope to continue on this adventure together for years to come.

With Respect and Gratitude,

Dusty May Taylor
Frankie Joy Bailer
And Other Concerned Current and Former Students of Peterson Academy

Most of the channels we hit up were totally silent.

One professor seems to have deemed it worthy of at least a forward.

Here is the response we received, with the lecturer’s name removed for privacy purposes:

So we waited.

We agreed that we’d give approximately 5 days before taking further action on our part.

In the end, nothing came of this.

One of our fellow expelled students had two VIP tickets to see Jordan in person in two consecutive cities in February and travelled great lengths to see him.

She took a printed copy of the letter and handed it directly to him (apparently he handed it off to an aide in her presence).

When she was at the next VIP event the following night, she asked if he had read it and he said he had not.

As of June 2025 we’ve had no indication that he ever read it.

Student Frustrations & Another Expulsion

Back to Peterson Academy circa January 10th or so.

Students began leaving.

One expressed his disapproval that Dusty had been removed:

Shortly after the example above, he posted to let everyone know he was asking for a refund on his membership, along with his reason for the request:

Another student informed the others of his departure:

12 January 2025 Example of Student Leaving Peterson Academy

Someone made a tribute post to Dusty that other students commented on with their support:

10 January 2025 Example of Support for Dusty

I also received a funny tribute:

Stephen decided that he was stepping away from the social side of things, providing this explanation:

While some expressed their frustration by other means memes:

Memes Posted by Various Students around the Week After the Initial Bannings

In the midst of all this, Jeffrey tried to reach Mikhaila again:

11 January 2025 Post from Jeffrey Explaining the Problems and Asking for Issues to be Fixed

His post remained ignored.

As some people were leaving, other students shared their disappointment:

It also appears that the culture we had build up over the past several months was already falling by the wayside:

The good-natured way people interacted seemed to have been changing, one student noted:

Someone else started a poll to see if we should be let back onto the platform, and a sizeable majority ruled in our favor:

14 January 2025 Screenshot of Peterson Academy Poll Started (I Believe) around 12 January 2025, Along with Student Comments with Various Thoughts on the Issue

Some who were openly critical of us got push-back from other students who had been around long enough to understand why we’d been vocal in the first place:

Despite all of this, Mikhaila and the rest of the Peterson Academy administration remained silent.

People reacted to the silence in different ways.

The student who had posted the much-reposted There’s No Such Thing as a Dragon stuff earlier summed up everything with a brief line and reference to that book again:

On January 12th, one student began a campaign where he declared that he would post a memorial to the removed students until we were either reinstated or he was removed from the platform.

Here is his original post:

Here is what his protest looked like:

14 January 2025 Example of Student Disapproval of Prior Expulsions

His account was deleted on January 14th sometime before 19:30 ET.

There was still no word from the management.

Response (of Sorts) from Leadership

Strangely, after the total lack of communication from PA leadership, January 14th was the day they sent out an email.

The following was sent out with the title 2025 Update Message from the Founders:

14 January 2025 Email to Current and Former Peterson Academy Students

Beyond the grammatically-incongruent lists, the whole thing seemed odd to me.

If Peterson Academy had all this in the works (and clearly for some time), why would they not mention it while the students were asking questions?

What did they have to gain by letting us stew in the lack of communication?

What was the purpose of withholding this information until now?

They still did not address things like Mikhaila’s suggesting that the price would go up to $1,000/year at some point but giving no timeline to indicate when further price increases could be expected.

Overall one could argue that the communication itself was at least a step in the right direction.

In spite of this, there was still trouble in River City.

There is No Dragon

Around 00:52 ET on January 15th, the student who wrote all the Dragon posts was removed.

To be honest, it was a bit of a surprise to all of us that he’d been permitted to stay that long.

What did him in seems to have been a meme pointing out that, despite the email update, Peterson Academy was still removing students:

It was around the time of these removals that the scales began to fall from many students’ eyes.

It had become clear that Peterson Academy was doubling down rather than accepting that perhaps the administration had made some poor choices.

Students expressed their disapproval once again:

15 January 2025 Reaction to Continued Expulsions

This very same day, January 15th, a “Principles of Conduct” statement was rolled out.

Here is the text of that in full:

Principles of Conduct Published 15 January 2025 (Originally Marked as Updated 14 January 2025)
as found on Peterson Academy’s Website 11 April 2025

I wonder if I would have agreed to signing up for Peterson Academy if this had existed when I enrolled.

These rules are vague and leave a lot of room for subjectivity.

Reading this, it begs the following questions:

• What constitutes the following behaviors?
  • Provocative
  • Derisive
  • Narcissistic
  • Troublemaking
  • Stirring Up Drama
  • Provoking or Harassing Others
• How are the above defined?
  • Surely, one could argue that having a good-faith discussion on controversial subjects could be subject to being interpreted as “stirring up drama” or provoking/harassing others.
  • Narcissism is a known response to childhood trauma; was the academy not willing to help those who were seeking to better themselves in spite of some less-desirable personality traits they might be working to overcome?
• If left to subjective interpretation, would a student have any process to appeal admin judgement based on the aforementioned criteria?
• Is it really in students’ best interest to define what can and cannot be discussed? Does this not hamper the ability to think freely with one’s peers?
  • NOTE: I completely agree that pornographic and overly-violent content should not be permitted; but even things like pornography and violence should be able to be discussed in a mature, academic manner.
• Who wrote this?
  • It certainly does not have the sophisticated tone of Jordan Peterson that I’ve read in his books.
  • There are some odd wordings here and at least one typo (“LMAO’s” should not have an apostrophe in it) that should have been caught prior to publishing.
• Would a student truly be removed for immaturity?
  • I understand that, in cases where a student’s immaturity could be impacting the ability of other students to study, something like this might be merited; but, isn’t the point of this to help people better themselves?
  • Is this a college campus where people can learn maturity while making some possibly-silly mistakes as they go along (as students often do at a real college), or is this LinkedIn where people are expected to put on a face and know how to behave already?
• Who gets to determine what is considered “reasoned opinions” and how is that standard upheld fairly?
• Are the things they are not fond of (and those that ought to be kept to a minimum) going to be enforced with a zero-tolerance policy, or are they just stating a preference?
  • This section has a level of ambiguity that is somewhat available to interpretation, which does not follow Peterson’s, “Be precise in your speech,” rule.
• Given the way that many terms in this Code are not defined, would Dr. Peterson agree to them if he were signing up for the platform?

Unsurprisingly, the Code’s ambiguity became a further source of concern for students:

Then, there was a flurry of new updates that nobody expected, including implementation of essays for some courses and enhancements to some features on the social side:

17 January 2025 Update Post from Peterson Academy on New Features

One user on the unofficial Peterson Academy Discord server pointed out how unfair this development seemed:

17 January 2025 Student Comment from the Unofficial Peterson Academy Discord Server

As a funny side note, the moderators of the unofficial Peterson Academy Discord server were actually quite fine with our staying to engage in discussions with our fellow students there. They gave everyone who either was booted or left the special label of “Gadfly” (a reference to Socrates’ analogy of people who dissent against the status quo for truth as being like gadflies).

A Podcast and an Article in the Toronto Star

It was becoming clear that our attempts to reach Dr. Peterson behind the scenes were to be to no avail.

There was no foreseeable reconciliation possible, so we figured the next best thing to do would be to let people know what had actually happened.

We seem to have been duped as to what was originally promised, and it would be best to let others know so they could be aware of what they were signing up for.

On Friday, 17 January 2025, Jeffrey van Leeuwen, Dusty, and I sat down and recorded a podcast on all of this.

Man, I was so nervous about it:

What if we just needed to give the Petersons more time?

Jordan Peterson was touring, after all.

What if this podcast picked up attention from the wrong people who wanted to twist it to make Peterson Academy look bad?

What if I misspoke?

What if things were misconstrued?

But Jordan had just been on the Diary of a CEO podcast and talked about the value of the “trickster” archetype.

13 January 2025 Diary of a CEO Podcast in Which Jordan Describes Himself Favorably as Playing
the Role of the Trickster Archetype

And this was exactly what I was trying to embody on Peterson Academy: using humor to make a point that some of us perceived as important.

I related to his narrative in this a lot.

It encouraged me.

Talking about this was the right thing to do, so I was committed and glad for the opportunity to be there.

But–man–it was a thing I was simultaneously loathe to do.

The day before the podcast was set to be released, I had another glimmer of hope that if Jordan Peterson saw what was going on he’d understand.

In an episode of his own podcast, Peterson was asked about the trickster archetype and explained how a good trickster uses comedy to open people’s eyes to a new world and bring about a change for the better.

If interested, you can see that clip here:

20 January 2025 episode of the Dr. Jordan B. Peterson Podcast with Michael Malice in which they Discuss the Trickster Archetype

Anyway, on Tuesday, January 22nd, Jeffrey had the podcast ready to go.

It was four hours, and covered things quite comprehensively based on what had happened up until that point and what we knew at the time.

(Major shout-out to Jeffrey for being able to get this whole thing through production between the late-night filming on Friday and his Tuesday-afternoon launch! He’d just recently begun doing video podcasts, and this was no small feat.)

If you’re not totally exhausted from the coverage of this topic already and curious to watch how it went (and see the difference in our sentiment then versus now, knowing how things have played out), you can see it here:

Jeffrey van Leeuwen Podcast Published 21 January 2025
Jordan Peterson’s Academy Expelled Students for Asking Questions | EP 21

I believe within the first week there were approximately 3,000 views.

Jeffrey posted it in the Quad on his Peterson Academy account.

Unsurprisingly, he was banned that same day.

The Star Article

A journalist at the Toronto Star was willing to take up the story (thank you, Alex!) and provided Dusty and Jeffrey the opportunity to talk with her.

Although I believe she wrote the story sooner, everything was going on with the tariffs (much bigger news in Canada than our situation with PA) and so the paper held off on publishing the content right away.

Eventually, on 16 March 2025, the article appeared briefly (a few hours, perhaps) on the front page of the Star‘s website:

16 March 2025 Screenshot of the Toronto Star Article on their Front Page

Overall, I thought the article was very well done.

It wasn’t a hit piece, like it could have been.

It wasn’t overly sensationalized.

(NOTE: It was understood that this was going to be in print the following day, 17 March 2025, but a friend of mine procured a copy of this paper and I was unable to find the article. My guess is that it was either printed the previous day and there was some miscommunication to us about the date, or it was axed from the print edition.)

On March 19th and March 20th, Jordan Peterson posted on the Quad for the first time in months:

Jordan Peterson’s 19 and 20 January 2025 Posts on Peterson Academy, Respectively

Some of us speculated that maybe he had at least seen the Star article.

I still don’t think he knew what he was talking about here, since I was (and am) still receiving emails from disillusioned students telling me the Quad actually wasn’t (and still isn’t) anything like it used to be in the way of upward aim, encouragement, civility, productivity, and sanity.

Thoughts on Jordan Peterson’s Involvement (or Lack Thereof)

At the time that Peterson Academy launched, Jordan Peterson would pop into the discussions every now and again, favoriting posts he liked, adding comments, or reposting people’s content with his thoughts.

This wasn’t super frequent, but I’d say you could expect to see him there maybe once or twice per week (possibly even more the first week or so of the launch–usually around 10 or 11 PM ET).

It was really cool.

THE Jordan Peterson who’d brought us all together was here talking with all us little people. 👀

Until showing up in March, he seemed to disappear from the platform entirely within the first three or four weeks (maybe a week or two after the public launch of the platform on 9 September 2024).

This was understandable.

Things were going well, and the ship was sailing on its own.

Plus, as I may have mentioned once or twice before, he had just published a book and was away on a tour.

But just how far removed from the platform has he been since?

Well, here are some clues:

Mikhaila’s Podcast

In December, he did a podcast with Mikhaila where they covered the goal of the academy, “providing an ivy-league education…at the lowest possible cost.”

6 December 2024 Episode of the Mikhaila Peterson Podcast in Which She and Jordan Peterson Discuss Peterson Academy

They discussed the social-media portion of the platform (00:24:18) and Mikhaila described it like this:

“[Peterson Academy is] a super positive place to be…the people on the platform are mostly talking about philosophical ideas, self-improvement, talking about how watching the courses is applicable in their lives and how it’s changing, like, how they get raises or what they’re doing in relationships…

And it’s interesting…I’ve never seen a social-media platform where people are boosting each other up like they are on Peterson Academy. It’s weird. It’s great, but it’s weird.”

She’s right.

At the time they recorded this, it was just like that.

But there’s a part worth noting a little later (00:31:11) where Jordan asks Mikhaila if they know what portion of students are taking the exams versus just watching the lectures.

It’s an interesting question because, despite their being advertised on the sales page as existing, the exams for the courses were still unavailable.

It seems that he is unaware of this.

Talking About the Issue on Piers Morgan, Joe Rogan, and Jordan Peterson’s Podcasts

Over the past few months, Dr. Peterson has appeared on a number of popular podcasts where he’s talked briefly about what happened.

What he’s said seems to indicate that he’s not actually familiar with the specifics.

8 April 2025 Podcast with Piers Morgan in Which Dr. Peterson Discusses Peterson Academy’s
Social Media Platform, Still Describing It as Very Positive and Portraying what Happened Inaccurately

Here’s the direct quote about what happened:

“We had to toss about ten people out of 15,000 off because ten people misbehaving was enough to tilt the whole thing in a pathological direction!

[…]

But if people are looking for a community, they can definitely find it there. It’s a community that’s aiming upward and not in a naive manner. You know, like, it’s easy to think of morality as, ‘never doing anything wrong,'[…]but the other side of it that’s never amplified…is that there isn’t a greater adventure than truth and responsibility!”

Quote from Jordan Peterson on Piers Morgan’s 8 April 2025 Podcast (01:01:12)

But by this point, the state of the Quad was not the way he described it here.

Not long after his appearance on Piers Morgan, Peterson was on Joe Rogan and mentioned things again:

22 April 2025 | Joe Rogan Experience #2308 – Jordan Peterson

Here’s the relevant part of that conversation:

“We have a great social media site. We had to kick ten people off it. We have 15,000 active users. Ten people were dragging it sideways.”

“What were they doing?”

“They were…they were causing trouble, Joe!”

“Sociopaths!” [Joe said this with a smile on his face.]

“–They were causing trouble!

Well, or immature. Or…didn’t know how to conduct themselves, or…that’s all it took. And now everyone is sharing ideas and Mik–my, my daughter, and her husband, they keep a close eye on this.”

“That’s great.”

Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan Discussing the Trouble-Making Students Peterson Academy Removed and the Supposed Outcome of this Removal (01:59:31)

I don’t think he would have said this about us if he had been able to see what had actually been going on.

Most recently, Jordan Peterson had Sam Harris on his podcast and mentioned the situation once again:

12 June 2025 Podcast – How the Internet Is Breaking Our Brains | Sam Harris | EP 555

Here’s the relevant segment from this conversation:

“…we have an online social media element to [Peterson Academy], which tracks about 15,000 regular users and […] we keep a pretty close eye on it.

And we refunded the money of ten of our students because they were causing trouble on the social-media platform.

Ten! Out of fifteen thousand.

[…]

And it MARKEDLY IMPROVED in their absence.”

Jordan Peterson’s 12 June 2025 Portrayal of Our Expulsions

This statement is false.

But don’t take my word for it.

Let’s turn to the thoughts others have shared with me.

As of June 2025 I have friends who are still on the platform who continue to report that the state of things is nothing like it used to be.

Here’s a direct message that I received back in February by a disgruntled student who was quite frustrated with the whole thing and what it had devolved into:

Here’s a more-recent email that echoes a similar sentiment of how the Quad is not what it used to be:

12 May 2025 Email from Peterson Academy Student Saying the Quad is Still Not What it Used to Be

Here is a take that a friend of mine on Discord who is still in Peterson Academy had to say about Peterson’s portrayal of things:

16 June 2025 Response to Jordan Peterson’s Description of What Our Removal Did to the PA Quad

And I received an email (totally unprompted) from a student I hadn’t heard from in a while who saw the podcast with Sam Harris and was inclined to reach out to express that Peterson was wrong in his estimation of us:

17 June 2025 Email from Peterson Academy Student Expressing Support in the Face of Peterson’s Mischaracterizing Us on His Podcast

So, there you have it from real Peterson Academy students.

But wait!

There’s more:

The stuff Peterson says about all of us in the podcast with Sam Harris is part of a larger conversation he’s having about the ills of free access to social media where he talks of online anonymity as a possible cause for the sorts of behaviors he’s just ascribed to us.

So it’s worth noting that the majority of us who were removed used our full names and were not anonymous.

We believed we were doing the right thing and were willing to stake our reputations on it.

At best, it seems he’s still unaware of what really happened.

At worst, it seems he does not embody the truths he so adamantly espouses.

Shadow-Banning, Student Integrity, & a Summary

So, there’s still weird stuff going on.

A number of us have tried to post comments on YouTube videos when this topic comes up, to bring attention to the fact that the narrative being told is inaccurate.

When we do this, our comments are typically shadow banned:

The original poster can still see the comment as if it remains on the video, but it has been removed from public view.

On January 24th, I tried posting the following on the Tony Robbins episode that was put out on January 23rd:

Jeffrey posted something on the Sam Harris episode that was getting some pretty-okay engagement (including my own trying to clarify stuff for someone who was skeptical of our claims), which was hidden from the public within several hours of being posted:

16 June 2025 Comments Removed from Jordan Peterson’s YouTube Video with Sam Harris

Some of us were also blocked by Mikhaila on X early on, although I claim full responsibility for this one for my own account:

So, we’re not being heard and we’re actively being blocked from being able to share what happened on some channels.

Also, I need to be winding this down.

Google tells me that, combined with my other post on this, the saga has officially reached “novella” length. 😅

I’ve pondered why I’ve wanted to put so much time into this.

I suppose at the end of the day, whether my efforts are recognized by anyone able to do anything or not, it was important for me to get the story out there.

Part of this is for me, just so I don’t feel like I have to keep all of it in my head.

Part of this is for all the other exemplary human beings that I both know peripherally from all this and those who have become dear friends in the midst of it.

They shouldn’t be being villainized by someone we once idolized.

And I think our story is one worth telling.

In trying to track down permission for as many of these screenshots as possible, I came across this post from a student who seemed to sum up the general issues that most (even those less inclined to speak up) had with everything that went down:

When I reached out to this man to see if I could use his post in my blog, he sent me a lengthy email.

He said I could publish it in full, so I have it below because it provides a good summary from yet another student’s perspective on what happened.

I am also including it in its entirety because I think it speaks to this man’s character in his insistence that he wants the truth of everything that happened to be clear to anyone who saw him leave.

Some of this truth isn’t particularly flattering to him, and yet he owns it (in true Petersonian style) and is more concerned that it’s clear that he did choose to leave Peterson Academy after all and was not kicked out.

In spite of the disappointment, he still wants it to be known where Peterson Academy did not fall short on his behalf.

And I think this speaks volumes in light of how they are willing to share falsehoods about us while we are still concerned with only calling them out for those things which actually merit it.

Without further ado, here’s that email:

So, Frankie, here’s my take on the things wich [sic] happend [sic] in the time I spent at the Peterson Academy.

Brief introduction: Jordan Peterson’s words helped me tremendously in the past to get through a difficult time in my life. When I learned that he wanted to establish an online academy, I was immediately excited. The advertised vision (future accreditation, a place where open-minded people meet, Phone-App etc.) led me to participate from the very first launch.

Time at the Academy:

Of course, I was initially euphoric and naive. After about 3-4 weeks, my state of euphoria subsided. The academy wasn’t at all what it had been advertised as. It lacked essential features (personal messages, group chats, mobile app, exams, etc.), and extremely annoying bugs were not uncommon.The fact that no tests were available and had not been introduced during my time made me question whether accreditation (which is important) would even be possible. Nonetheless, the courses and their materials were extremely professional and packed with information. While the Peterson Academy was initially a good idea, it still needed a lot of development, wich [sic] wasn’t communicated that way. This bothered me a little, but it wasn’t a reason to leave the platform. I still believed in the marketed vision.

Social feed: I looked at everything on the feed every day. While I barely interacted with other people (I think this is the first time we’ve ever communicated 🙂 ), I still enjoyed watching the exchanges between other people on the social feed. Dusty, [“No such thing as a dragon” student], you, and others were consistently strong posters, which meant that the feed was constantly fed with interesting discussions/statements. Throughout this time, your posts were consistently positive, and you kept the feed alive even after the initial euphoria of all the students (it’s only logical that normality will return at some point) had subsided. Great respect for that. After a while, the first people were banned (Brian, CAP GUY, and Meme Guys), but these people were clearly behaving inappropriately and were constantly disturbing/insulting other students. I don’t see a single moment where I question these bans.

The price increase: The price increase was announced. What was the problem? For me, there were two things.
1) From the beginning, nothing was communicated about a possible price increase. I even think I remember it being said that early enrollers would pay this price permanently, but I’m not sure about that anymore. Add to that the shady 2-year Black Friday commitment deals, and it was no longer certain what the price would be in the future.
2) To be honest, the price increase itself wasn’t a lot of money and was more than justified for what you would potentially get. BUT, what would you get? Accreditation was no longer addressed, and the academy’s technical progress from the start to the increase was neither rapid nor encouraging, as it hadn’t added anything new. They only added features that had already been marketed from the start and should have been part of the website already.
These concerns were also reflected in the feed. An academy using the name Peterson could have decided, after all the questions from students in the feed, to communicate the future transparently. However, despite numerous questions, NOTHING happened. This led to frustration for many. Dusty, [“Dragon” student], you and others raised questions about it every day. Perhaps you exaggerated a bit, it could be, but for me, these questions were more than justified. Another point for me was that I didn’t see any disrespectful/insulting posts towards the leadership. So, everything was fine. Then Mikhaila even took a disrespectful swipe at you in one of her posts (I unfortunately don’t remember the content exactly, but I think she was confirming another student’s theory that you’re narcissists or something like that). That really called this woman’s integrity into question for me. Then you were banned, which I think was unjustified, because your questions were justified and not disrespectful. After all the missing features, bugs, etc. mentioned, they more than owed us an answer. Then questions about your bans were asked daily, politely but not disrespectfully. As a result, the active critic posters (daily or every two days) were also banned. [“Dragon” student] and I then posted about the bans every three or four days, politely and not disrespectfully. [“Dragon” student] phrased his questions so beautifully and cleverly that just reading them was enriching, given how well the man could express himself. But we never received any answers.

I have a very high moral compass that strikes an extreme when I perceive things as unfair. However, for me, all the bans were unfair compared to the bans of Brian and co. The leadership avoided dealing with criticism constructively, something that, according to Jordan Peterson’s teachings, shouldn’t happen (stand up straight with your shoulders back). However, I increasingly realized that this wasn’t Jordan’s academy, but his daughter’s. His name was simply being used for marketing purposes; I can’t explain this behavior any other way. So, I reached a point where I had little/no fun being part of the academy anymore, as I felt that “free speech” only existed here if it wasn’t (justifiably) directed against the leadership. Nevertheless, I still tried to believe in the vision. On a positive note, after a certain period of time, the academy published a future plan that addressed all the criticism and clarified what the future would look like regarding accreditation, the app, etc. That would have been a good time to bring back the banned people. But they didn`t bring back the unjustified banned people and when [“Dragon” student] was banned, I’d had enough. I decided to leave the Academy, as I would have been next on the list anyway.

Let’s briefly talk about a big mistake I made. My last post on the Academy’s social feed was a criticism directed at the leadership and their behavior. At the end of this criticism, I wrote that I had no intention of leaving the Academy. One or two  weeks later, however, [“Dragon” student] was banned, and I’d had enough. I emailed the Academy a criticism and added at the end that I wanted a refund. However, I also wrote that if they would offer me the refund that they wait a day, so that I could post a final friendly/sympathetic message on the social feed, stating that I was leaving voluntarily and wishing the others the best despite our differences. This request was not granted, but I did receive a refund. I was still on discord at the time. I should have left a message there. However, there was a certain [student] there who insulted many [other] students and constantly devalued my criticism by implying that I was friends with you, Dusty, [“Dragon” student], and the rest. However, I never interacted with you. So, in a fit of rage, I quit the server and left no message. When I tried to leave a message for clarification 3-4 days later (because i want to be honest), I couldn’t find the server anymore. Clearly, I’m at fault, and this behavior may have misrepresented my situation to students who were wondering where I was. I wasn’t banned, but I certainly would have been if I hadn’t left voluntarily. I’m glad you wrote to me; this allowed me to clarify and present my perspective correctly, and I hope I was able to be of use to you in your endeavor.

Conclusion: It would have been nice if the marketed vision had been fulfilled. I completed my bachelor’s degree alongside the Peterson Academy, so for me the academy was not groundbreaking for my professional career. Nevertheless, I would have liked to acquire the knowledge that the academy provides, as it is worth its weight in gold. However, under these conditions my moral compass does not allow me to be a part of it. Since accreditation will take another 3-4 years, its another negative for me. With all due respect, the academy can certainly contact companies, but most companies are still interested in accredited training courses, and that is a good thing. For companies to hire you or prefer you based on a Peterson Academy certificate is ideological and not realistic. State-recognized certificates have an advantage, and that must be recognized. I wish all the students of this academy the best and hope they are successful in life. Unfortunately, this project ended too soon for me and you, but I am happy with my decision for now (Maybe, i will visit it again later). If you would like to know more, we can talk via voice chat. Otherwise, all the best for you in the future and please pass on my regards to the others.

Kind regards Adam

16 April 2025 Email from a Former Peterson Academy Student

What Comes Next & Hope for the Future

My hope here is that Jordan Peterson remains ignorant and has just taken his daughter’s word about what happened.

I hope that he’s gotten a false narrative and taken it blindly as the truth.

(One of the last classes I took before getting booted was the one about Napoleon in the Greatest Leaders in History course. It has been something I’ve been contemplating with regard to all of this because Napoleon placed too much trust in the competency of his family to take on the burden of the legacy he was working to establish, which did not end up well for him. It seems that Dr. Peterson may be making this same error.)

It’s something I’d prefer to chalk up to ignorance rather than malice.

So, in the absence of better data, that’s what I’m choosing to do.

I suppose time will tell.

For me, this whole thing has been a great adventure that I believe has changed me for the better.

I’ve learned to own what I say.

I was challenged (yet again) to evaluate my willingness to put trust in, and build my life around, an institution.

I’ve become more skeptical of people that I would have previously taken at their word simply because I thought our political views meant we shared the same values.

And I have met some incredible friends along the way.

I think it fitting to wrap this up with a quote of Jordan Peterson’s that makes me believe I’m still on the right path and grateful to have experienced all this:

“It’s like, with the truth, for example:

Why is the truth an adventure?

Because if you say what you believe to be true, you have to sacrifice the outcome!

Right?

You can’t use your words instrumentally, in a manipulative way. You have to say what you think is the case and then you have to let the cards fall wherever the hell they’re going to!

And that can be a real mess, but it’s unbelievably exciting!”

8 April 2025 Quote from Jordan Peterson on Piers Morgan (01:02:00)

Up Next:

Bonus Features

What do you think about all of this? Whether you agree or disagree, I am certainly curious to hear what any of you who’d like to weigh in on it have to say. And I welcome disagreement on the chance that there’s anything to be learned from it! 🙂